Category: Biblical Theology

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Hey friends — welcome back to the podcast. Today, we stand on the peak and look back. Peter Leithart, in his Postscript, knows what some readers are probably asking: Is this too much?

Too much to see the Trinity everywhere? Too much to claim that creation hums with perichoresis — mutual indwelling?

Leithart hears the pushback — and answers it head-on.

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Some theologians worry. They say: “Wait a minute — you can’t compare the relations inside the Trinity to human relationships.” After all, God is God. We are creatures. Isn’t that gap too wide?

Others say: Sure, God is relational — but “perichoresis” should only describe the divine Persons, not families, friends, music, time.

Some call this “creeping perichoresis” — like theological kudzu, spreading where it doesn’t belong.

Leithart says: fair points. The Triune God is unlike us — but the Bible itself keeps drawing these connections.

God is Rock. Sun. Light. Father. Husband. Shepherd. Warrior. The language is earthy — unembarrassed. Scripture doesn’t panic about analogies. It expects us to think with them — carefully, yes, but boldly.

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Jesus prayed, “Father, may they be one as we are one.” The church’s unity is not a copy of something else — it’s a participation in the divine dance. “I in them, Thou in Me.”¹John 17:23 That’s not poetry — it’s the Gospel.

Paul echoes it too: “Christ in you, the hope of glory.”²Col 1:27 “In Him we live.” We are in Him — and He in us. The Spirit dwells in us — and we dwell in the Spirit.

It’s not fusion — it’s fellowship. Distinct yet intertwined. And it’s more than metaphor. It’s how salvation works.

Of course, the pattern must be handled with care. The Trinity’s inner life is not just a diagram for human society. But if creation is the handiwork of the Triune God — then why wouldn’t the shape of the Maker echo in the shape of what’s made?

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Some scholars say: “But God’s ways are too high, too different.” True. To an extent. But the Bible never makes us choose between transcendence and analogy. Scripture is full of bold images: “Like a father,” “like a mother,” “like an eagle.” The world is crafted to say something true about its Creator.

The clue is baked into Genesis: humans made in the image of God. Image-bearers carry resemblance. Not identical — but truly reflective.  Think of us as being angled mirrors, reflecting God into the world and through our worship, summing up the praises of creation back to God.

As Leithart puts it in the final paragraph of the book:

“Of course, the biblical analogies must be handled with care. Of course, we must not conclude that, because we grasp something of how human beings relate, we know exactly what sort of relation the Father has with the Son. But we should be no more anxious about these analogies than Scripture is, and we should certainly not be so anxious about the limits of human knowledge and speech that we are reduced to silence. We worship a God who is Word; he has spoken, and he expects us to speak his words after him. He expects us to learn how to use everything he has revealed and named to honor, praise, and tell of him, because that is the destiny for which everything was created.”

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So, Leithart argues, the pattern of mutual indwelling doesn’t flatten Creator and creature. It celebrates the fact that creation is designed to mirror the triune love at its heart.

We don’t just “balance” opposites. We dwell in the swirl. We find the traces — and the traces find us.

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So here’s where he leaves us: the world is not a cold machine or a random accident. It’s a living song, a word woven of words, a dance of difference that holds together in the embrace of Father, Son, and Spirit.

Find the traces. Follow them home. 

The Trinity leaves fingerprints on every inch of creation.

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I welcome any questions or comments. [Don’t worry, your personal info will not be given to anyone.] Thanks!

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [John 17:21-23 (KJV)]

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Welcome back to this podcast series about Traces of the Trinity. We’ve walked with Peter Leithart up this winding path, terrace by terrace, tracing hints of the Triune dance in our bodies, our words, our music, our time, our love.

And now — we reach the summit. Chapter 9: I in Thee, Thou in Me.¹John 14:20 & John 17:21-23

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Leithart looks back: what’s he shown us? That the world isn’t built on tidy balances of opposites — but on a deeper pattern: mutual indwelling. Things twist, fold, and swirl through each other. Our bodies breathe the world. Lovers entwine. Words carry worlds. Chords hold notes that hold each other.

The pattern is everywhere. But here’s the bold claim: this pattern comes from the very heart of God.

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Leithart turns theological. The ancient word is perichoresis — the mutual indwelling of the Father, Son, and Spirit. Not three gods. Not one God shape-shifting. But one God whose three Persons dwell in each other — the Father in the Son, the Son in the Father, the Spirit moving through both.²Scripture addresses this theme of mutual indwelling most directly in John’s Gospel, where Jesus articulates the reciprocal relationship between himself and the Father.

Jesus explicitly states that he exists within the Father while the Father simultaneously exists within him (John 14:10–11), a declaration he repeats for emphasis. He grounds this claim in the Father’s active presence—the Father dwelling within him performs the works Jesus accomplishes (John 14:10–11). This mutual indwelling serves as evidence of their unity, inviting belief through the works themselves (John 10:38).

The relationship extends beyond the Father and Son to encompass believers and the Spirit. Jesus promises that his followers will come to understand a threefold union: he dwells in the Father, they dwell in him, and he dwells in them (John 14:20). This pattern of mutual presence becomes a model for Christian experience. In his prayer to the Father, Jesus envisions believers united with both the Father and Son, just as the Father and Son are united with each other (John 17:21).

Regarding the Spirit specifically, Jesus promises the Holy Spirit as a Helper who will dwell with believers and ultimately be within them (John 14:16–17). While the scriptures don’t explicitly state all three persons simultaneously indwelling one another in a single passage, the Johannine material establishes the foundational theology: the Father and Son mutually indwell each other, believers indwell both through faith, and the Spirit indwells believers. Together, these passages construct a picture of trinitarian communion that extends from the Godhead into the church.

This is the source of all the swirls, whirls, and Möbius strips of creation.

And here’s the beauty: the Gospel isn’t just about God up there. It’s about the Father making room in the Son — and the Son opening space for us. Jesus prays, “Father, as You are in Me, and I in You, may they also be in Us.”

It’s not metaphor. It’s reality. The church is not a club. It’s a community pulled into the Triune life — an earthly echo of divine perichoresis.

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John says the invisible God is now visible in Jesus. The Father is in the Son. The Son makes the Father known. And we — shockingly — are invited in.

Paul says the same. “In Christ,” he writes — over and over. Believers dwell in Christ, and Christ dwells in us. The Spirit wraps us in this divine embrace.

We are temples — houses for God’s Spirit. And at the same time, we are housed in Christ. “I in Thee, Thou in Me.” That’s the heart of the Good News.

The early church marveled at this. Hilary of Poitiers³Hilary of Poitiers (c. 310–367) was an early Christian bishop, theologian, and Doctor of the Church, often called the “Athanasius of the West.” As bishop of Poitiers in Gaul, he became a leading defender of Nicene Trinitarian theology against Arianism. Exiled for his opposition to Arian-aligned emperors, Hilary used his exile to deepen his theological work, producing major writings such as On the Trinity (De Trinitate). His efforts helped articulate orthodox teaching on the divinity of Christ in the Western church, and his legacy endures in both theology and hymnody., John of Damascus⁴John of Damascus (c. 675–749) was an Eastern Christian monk, theologian, and hymnographer, and one of the most important figures of Byzantine theology. Born into a Christian family under Islamic rule in Damascus, he later became a monk at the Monastery of Saint Sabas near Jerusalem. John is best known for The Fount of Knowledge, the first comprehensive systematization of Eastern Orthodox theology, and for his vigorous defense of the veneration of icons during the Iconoclastic Controversy. Drawing on the Greek Fathers and Aristotelian philosophy, his work helped preserve and transmit patristic theology, earning him recognition as a Doctor of the Church. — they wrote about this “containing and being contained” that no human reason could fully grasp.

But Leithart says — look around! This isn’t abstract. It’s in your breath, your body, your family, your songs. The Trinity leaves fingerprints on every inch of creation.

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So what? What difference does this make?

First: it means love is the grain of the universe. Before anything was created there was loving community.  So when we open ourselves — when we make room for others — when we dwell in each other’s lives — we live true. We follow the pattern.

Second: it means our faith isn’t about “balancing” opposites. It’s about embracing the tangle, the swirl, the co-dwelling. Trying to hold “individual” and “society” apart is silly — they make each other. Past, present, future — they interweave.

Third: it means the world is a house for God — and God is a house for the world. “In Him we live and move and have our being,” Paul said⁵Acts 17:28. The Triune God wraps the cosmos in love.

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And the end of this story? It’s a wedding feast⁶Revelation 21 — when God and His people dwell together perfectly. A choir — when every voice fills the others with song. A temple — when Spirit and Bride echo the same note.

All the traces point here: Love is the source, the shape, and the goal.

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So, friends — let the pattern sink in. You are not alone. You dwell, if you’re a believer, in Him — and He dwells in you.

And in this world, every breath, every chord, every loving embrace is one more whisper: “I in Thee, Thou in Me.”⁷John 14:20 & John 17:21-23

Until next time — keep listening for the traces.

The Trinity leaves fingerprints on every inch of creation.

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Next – Episode 10 – Postscript

Postscript: After the Traces: Questions and Pushback

I welcome any questions or comments. [Don’t worry, your personal info will not be given to anyone.] Thanks!

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Welcome back to the podcast about Traces of the Trinity. Over this whole journey with Peter Leithart, we’ve explored how the pattern of mutual indwelling — this Trinitarian swirl — shows up in bodies, time, language, music, family, ethics, love.

Today, in Chapter 8, Leithart asks: what kind of mind does it take to see this pattern? What kind of imagination can follow the curves of a world that doesn’t stay inside straight lines?

This is The Supple Imagination.

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So much modern thinking tries to chop reality into sharp angles — neat boxes, clear walls, rigid boundaries. Plato did it with forms and shadows. Descartes did it with mind vs. body.

We do it too — making categories that lock things in place: true vs. false, right vs. wrong, inside vs. outside. And yes — some lines are needed. Without difference, there’s just a blob.

But Leithart says: the real world won’t fit cleanly into our grids. Try it — rain or not? Mist sits in between. Blue or green? Some colors hover on the edge.

Inside and outside? They define each other. There’s no “inside” without an “outside.” There’s no father without a son, no word without another word to shape it.

Reality is full of edges — but they bend, swirl, fold.

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To see this, Leithart says we need a supple imagination — an inner flexibility. The courage to hold opposites together without collapsing them into mush.

Think of words: “woman” contains “man.” “Up” implies “down.” “White” means “not-black.” Even absence leaves a trace in presence.

The same goes for arguments. Too often, we treat debates like trench warfare: my fortress vs. yours, lobbing grenades until someone wins.

But if reality itself is curved, maybe arguments should be too. Not blunt force, but jujitsu — using your opponent’s claim to flip the conversation, to find the deeper pattern beneath the clash.

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Leithart shows how this works. Free will vs. God’s sovereignty? Some say they clash — that if God knows everything, we can’t be free.

But what if it’s because God knows all things that we are free — not in spite of it? Maybe divine foreknowledge and human freedom dwell inside each other.

It’s a puzzle — but it’s supple. It invites wonder instead of a stalemate.

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Same with politics. We debate “state” vs. “economy.” But every contract sits inside a legal system. Every law shapes markets. There is no pure “economy” walled off from politics.

A supple mind sees the overlap, the folded edges. It flips the debate from “should the state interfere?” to “how are they already indwelling each other?”

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It’s the same in faith. Leithart shows that the supple imagination doesn’t flatten truth. It honors real differences — but sees how they weave together.

Arguments don’t need to be hammers. They can be keys — unlocking hidden connections.

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So here’s the big point: the real world is not a grid of blocks. It’s more like music — flowing lines, chords that interpenetrate. More like language — word inside word inside world.

A supple imagination moves with the folds. It sees the lines, but it also sees the Möbius strip — the swirl that links inside and outside.

To think like this is to think with the grain of the world. To see the Trinitarian pattern not just in church doctrine — but in every street, every conversation, every argument, every chord.

That’s the kind of mind Leithart invites us to grow: supple, patient, alert. Able to bend with reality instead of snapping it to fit our boxes.

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So, friends — next time you’re tempted to grab the hammer and pound your point home — pause. Take a deep breath.  Look for the curve. The overlap. The trace of the other side hiding in what seems opposite.

That’s the supple imagination — and maybe, just maybe, it’s one more echo of the Triune dance.

Next time, we’ll wrap this whole journey up and glimpse the peak — what happens when the pattern leads us all the way to the Source.

Until then — keep your mind supple, your eyes open, and your heart tuned for the whispers of the Word in the world.

The Trinity leaves fingerprints on every inch of creation.

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Next – I in Thee, Thou in Me – Episode 9

Traces of the Trinity: I in Thee, Thou in Me

I welcome any questions or comments. [Don’t worry, your personal info will not be given to anyone.] Thanks!